User talk:76.213.244.5

Here's an excerpt of the interview with George Dunsay, senior vice president of reasearch and development at Hasbro, who confirmed that Floro Dery is the designer of the transforming planet Unicron, and here's the link http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/interviews/george_dunsay/george_dunsay_interview.php

"Nevermore: When you say "Marvel", do you mean Marvel/Sunbow? Because currently it's considered an established fact that the original designs for the movie toys came from Sunbow, particularly from a Mr Floro Dery, who also claims credit for being largely responsible for the designs from the first two seasons of the cartoon series (before that, it was assumed that Marvel Comics' John Romita was responsible for those designs).

George Dunsay: As far as who actually did the designs for the movie toys, I cannot say. I had assumed it was Marvel. In any event it wasn't Takara or Hasbro R&D. We in R&D who controlled everything to that point were told what was going to be made. This was a major departure for the process at Hasbro at that time. R&D always initiated the product, usually with Takara ideas.

The first two years of cartoon products follow Takara designs. Optimus Prime, Bumblebee, etc. designs were from Takara products, not from Griffin-Bacal.

Floro Dery - he could have come up with the transforming planet. Takara took the direction from R&D to create that product. We were asked by marketing..."

See now how you people twist the facts! Your articles are trash!

-Charlie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.213.244.5 (talk • contribs).

That doesn't confirm anything other than George Dunsay doesn't know for sure. He says Floro Dery could have designed Unicron. Words mean things! --ItsWalky 22:39, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Definitely, it's not the Japanese artists as pointed out by Dunsay because it wasn't Takara and Hasbro R&D! And if not Floro Dery, then who's the designer? - Charlie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.213.244.5 (talk • contribs).

Where is your visual evidence that you designed it, Mr. Dery? -- SFH 22:48, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Takara came up with the idea of a transforming planet for their Diaclone line which predates Transformers by a good number of years. What we're disputing is that Dery claims he came up with the concept of a transforming planet, which is not true. --Detour 22:55, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Right. I don't doubt Floro Dery designed Unicron for the movie. What's in dispute is his claim that he came up with the concept of a transforming planet, when we have a Japanese concept drawing of a transforming planet that predates Transformers itself. --ItsWalky 22:57, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I have already told you, I'm not Floro Dery. You people are really confused. Anyway, there's an original design of Unicron posted in Mr. Dery's website, Here's the link

http://hometown.aol.com/celydery/unicron.html

- Charlie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.213.244.5 (talk • contribs).

And again you completely ignore what we're saying. Floro Dery has made claims that the entire concept of a transforming planet was his idea, in spite of the fact that Takara's designers had toyed with the idea many, many years before he started working on Transformers. --Detour 23:01, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

OK, then where's the visual proof for Japanese Transforming planet? -Charlie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.213.244.5 (talk • contribs).

Don't have them but I'm sure someone on this wiki has them. Walky? Oh, and also, interesting side note, "Charlie"'s IP address is from LA. Isn't that where Mr. Dery resides? --Detour 23:12, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

This be it. --ItsWalky 23:24, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

You people are really fishing for something. Mr. Dery in his website said that he lives in Manila. Besides, different computer users may have the same IP address. Come on, correct your informations, other people may think that you people are confused.

So, you people don't have the visual for Japanese transforming planet? You have no proof, just speculations! Pity! Really your articles are trash! - Charlie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.213.244.5 (talk • contribs).

The picture was JUST POSTED you freakin' idiot! How much more visual can it get??

Also, I've read here and there that Dery resides in LA, so. --Detour 23:39, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

The picture you posted was based on Mr. Dery's design of the transforming planet Unicron. Show the proof when it was created. Don't call me an idiot, I did not insult you, did I? Really, pity! - Charlie {unsigned|76.213.244.5}}

You have called our articles trash, which indirectly insults us. -- SFH 23:50, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

How can it be based on Dery's design when it was made years before Transformers were made? Freakin' crazy Dery troll...--Detour 23:55, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Calling an article trash is different from insulting a person, you people are getting personal. By the way, I'm half Japanese, and I speak, read and write Japanese. So be careful in posting Japanese drawings with Japanese texts. - Charlie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.213.244.5 (talk • contribs).

Fine, troll. If you're so Japanese, what does the text say? And keep in mind I study Japanese and know what some of it says so you can't bullshit me. --Detour 00:10, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Here's the translation: "Planet-robot, work by Hiroyuki Hataike, character appearing in transfomers movie.

Here's the link link

You people are really confused. Pity! If you have problem understanding Japanese texts, ask me. -Charlie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.213.244.5 (talk • contribs).

Well there you go. If it says that it's in the Transformers movie and comes from a book whose works PREDATE Transformers by a number of years, doesn't that pretty much prove we're right and you're wrong? --Detour 00:52, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Detour, the troll, you're absolutely wrong. Heroyuki is in the Japanese staff as designer, while Mr. Dery is in the Tagalog staff as the original concept designer. Check again the link

Pity, pity, pity! You really are confused. - Charlie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.213.244.5 (talk • contribs).

Wait a minute. Why does that page call the Japanese Movie Name "Transformers The Movie: Matrix Forever"? Matrix Forever was a promo for the movie. How can we take your claims seriously if they're factually inaccurate? And will you please write at the bottom of the page? -- SFH 01:06, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Hiroyuki Hataike worked as staff designer in the Japanese version which was an adaptation of the US Transformers movie, proving that Hiroyuki's design was based on the design of Mr. Dery. That's why even in this Japanese adaptation, Mr. Dery is still credited as the original concept designer.

Pity, pity, pity! Your articles are really trash! -Charlie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.213.244.5 (talk • contribs).

Yes, and look what Hataike's credited as! Original Unicron Designer! Does your mouth taste like foot yet? --Detour 01:18, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

And Heyzoos H. Christo what kind of freaking clueless person are you? The Japanese have been heavily involved in Transformers from the get-go and they didn't just do work for the "Japanese version of Transformers". Toei took care of the animation, a JAPANESE studio by god! Freaking clueless Dery-in-anonymous-mode... --Detour 01:22, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Can we please stop giving this moron attention? —Interrobang 01:32, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

You goofball, that's a LINK to the comic book adaptation you're referring to!

Please note the "U.S. manga" in the link. That means an American comic book. Basically we've just proven every single argument of yours wrong. You were right though. Only trolls and morons are confused, and you're the only one of them here! ^.^ --Detour 01:54, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Why are you insisting that I'm Floro Dery? You confused me with Mr. Dery. Anyway, only trolls and morons are confused.

Read again the text in these swebsite: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=2952

At the top it says: ADAPTATION. Or Japanese adaptation. Which means Hiroyuki adapted his design from Mr. Dery.

-Charlie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.213.244.5 (talk • contribs).

What I'm wondering is why there would be a piece of concept-art for a Transformers-origin character... in a book that is not about Transformers. The book it came from is all about the lines predating Transformers... most notably Henshin Cyborg, Diaclone, and the various Microman incarnations (plus a few minor licensed dealies), on a page full of concept art for those said lines. It barely acknowledges Transformers at all shy of "oh yeah then later Transformers used some molds", even in the thick of the Diaclone Car Robot section that formed the bulk of TFs' first two years. Hell, it even goes on to talk about the Italian "Trasformer" (sic) line that was released WITHOUT any Marvel-created elements like Autobots and Decepticons, before Italy then moved on to doing that. This would lead one to beleive that the planet-bot art was designed originally for something not Transformers, ie; Diaclone or Microman.
All else I'm going to say is that maybe if our friend here had actually tried to have a discussion rather than vandalize pages and (quite poorly) insult everyone here in the exact same manner as other trolls have done in other forums in the past on the same subject... well, the onus of proof would still be firmly on his shoulders, which has not yet been provided. But things would be more pleasant. --M Sipher 01:40, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Detour, the Japanese staff reads: Original Unicron Design: Hiroyuki Hataike. The Tagalog staff reads: Original Concept Design: Floro Dery.

But I have no information if Mr. Dery work in this Japanese movie Transformation version. Why he was given credit in this Japanese movie version if he did not work on it? Give me a reason.

But all of you still must produce a visual proof of Japanese version of transforming planet that predates Mr. Dery's. Heroyuki's design is out because it's just an adaptation of Mr. Dery's. The visual you posted with Japanese texts is from Transformers movie, it's out also.

- Charlie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.213.244.5 (talk • contribs).

M Sipher, I did not start the insults here. Detour started the insults by calling me idiot, crazy and troll; Interrobang also started insulting me by calling me moron.

- Charlie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.213.244.5 (talk • contribs).

Well then if Floro is only credited in Tagalog staff that means he never did design work on the English version of TFTM, so none of his claims are true!!!!!! You idiot. There are no "adaptations" of this movie beyond comic book adaptations. It's all the same movie. Just people from different parts of the world worked on it. Toei of Japan animated it, various American people wrote it, a Korean directed it... The only difference between the Japanese and American versions is the language it's in. They dubbed it in Japan, just like France dubbed it in French and so on... Seriously, do you KNOW how the world works? AnimeNewsNetwork credits the staff according to their country of origin, not according to "which version they did" like you seem to think. Seriously, get a clue. You're talking out your ass with your foot in your mouth... which I guess means you've got your foot in your ass. And in regards to proof that Hiroyuki (spell it right!)'s design came first, M Sipher's post proved that. You should read it some time. --Detour 02:37, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Detour, you did not give me reason why Mr. Dery is given credit in a Japanese Transformers movie version if he did not work on it.

Besides, why you keep insulting me? You cannot win an argument with someone if you insult him.

Also produce an original visual proof of transforming planet that predates Mr. Dery's.

To remind you again that George Dunsay said that Takara was not involved in the design of the transforming planet. Hiroyuki worked with Takara in the Japanese Transformers movie version, proving that Hiroyuki based his design from Mr. Dery's.

Pity, pity, Pity! You are all confused. So, some of you resort to insulting me. But here's funny in this website, there's no tagalog company, but Mr. Dery is listed as working in nonexistent company. Why? Why? Why?

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=2952 - Charlie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.213.244.5 (talk • contribs).

Here's another interesting thing from the website, US transfomers movie version is dated 1986, whreas Japanese Transfomers movie version is 1989. Proving that Japanese's Unicron is just a copy of Mr. Dery's Unicron. -Charlie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.213.244.5 (talk • contribs).

The Unicron in the Japanese version of the movie IS Dery's Unicron. the Japanese version of the movie is the American movie, with the dialogue replaced by Japanese dialogue. This is not in dispute. This has already been discussed. Anyone of reasonable human intelligence would already understand this.

To reiterate, NO ONE DISPUTES THAT FLORO DERY DESIGNED UNICRON, AS SEEN IN ALL VERSIONS OF THE MOVIE. This is established fact. That and Mr. Dery's other accomplishments on Transformers are more than enough for him to be proud of, so there is no reason for you to claim other peoples' work as his.

The issue is that Dery claims to have originated the very idea of a transforming planet, whereas we have drawings by Hiroyuki Hataike from a time before there even was a "Transformers" brand for Floro Dery to be involved with. And just to be perfectly clear, no one is claiming that Hataike's design was ever used as Unicron. He simply had the basic concept and some of the design elements earlier. Chip 04:08, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

For what it's worth, the text in the image posted above reads: "Planet-Robot: Original draft of a character appearing in the Transformers movie, by Hiroyuki Hataike." The key point omitted in previous discussion here is the word gen'an (原案)——"original draft". Unfortunately, the image carries no date on it, but the phrasing does seem to attribute the work entirely to Mr. Hataike. As the text mentions the TF movie specifically, I can see Mr. Maybe-Dery arguing that this indicates the art is based on Mr. Dery's work. However, just because the design was eventually used for Unicron, that doesn't mean this image was drawn specifically for the movie design, any more than the images of Powered Convoy (i.e., Ultra Magnus) were. I theorize an order of events something like this:

• Sometime late in the Diaclone line, Takara considers the idea of a transforming planet.
• Hiroyuki Hataike creates the drawing that is eventually published in Takara's Diaclone book.
• The Transformers line starts and is a big hit, enough to make Hasbro/Sunbow risk funding a movie.
• During the various script/idea-drafting stages, the idea for Unicron, a transforming, evil planet, comes up.
• Floro Dery is asked to design Unicron by people who are possibly unaware of the existing art by Mr. Hataike, or perhaps who ARE aware of it but want to see his take on the idea.
• His design is sent to Takara. They decide to combine elements of it with those of the original planet-robot design by Mr. Hataike.
• Toei gets the combined-element design to work into an animation model.

Result: Takara first thought of the concept of a planet turning into a robot. Floro Dery first designed the look of Unicron.--Apcog 04:11, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Apcog, if you cannot furnish the date then it amounts to nothing, it's just speculation.

The Unicron used in the Japanese Transformers movie version was in 1989, whereas the US Transformers movie version was in 1986. Besides George Dunsay said that Takara was not involve in the design of Unicron, it's from Marvel. The dates and what Dunsay said compliments each other, proving that the Japanese artist based his design from Mr. Dery's Unicron.

Another reason is why Mr. Dery is given credit if he's not involved in the Japanese version? This proved again that Mr. Dery is the originator of the Transforming planet. - Charlie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.213.244.5 (talk • contribs).

Okay, I'm fairly convinced that this guy isn't Dery. He is, however, unable to realize that the Japanese Movie and the American Movie are the same set of animation. If he can't, do we really want him running around the site, putting who knows what? -- SFH 05:33, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

SFH, I checked the Japanese Transformers movie version in Japanese language, both Mr. Dery and Hiroyuki have credits. I also looked at the US Transformes movie version, only Mr. Dery has concept design credit, Hiroyuki none. These proved that Mr. Dery is the originator of transforming planet.

By the way, thanks for realizing that I'm not Mr. Dery. It's obvious, he's Pilipino and I'm Japanese, half Japanese. But can Mr. Dery speaks Japanese? - Charlie

(I've shifted the above response's position and added indents to make it easier to follow the flow of this conversation.)

Your argument is apparently based on the Japanese theatrical release of TF:TM having an entirely different Unicron design, which it did not. The Unicron on U.S. movie screens in 1986 was the same as the Unicron on Japanese movie screens in 1989. The different release dates prove nothing where your argument is concerned. Japan simply got the movie three years after the U.S. did. They dubbed it into Japanese and gave it Japanese-language credits (and added subtitles of character names, I think) but the animation itself was unchanged.

George Dunsay, as proven by your own quote, thinks Mr. Dery could have designed Unicron, but he's not sure. All he states as absolute fact is that neither Hasbro R&D nor Takara designed the movie toys, and Unicron wasn't one of the toys.

Even if Mr. Dery did come up with the design for Unicron—which my last argument did not dispute—that does not mean he came up with the concept of a transforming planet. It is still possible for the art shown here to have been created well before Mr. Dery was asked to design Unicron.--Apcog 06:27, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

It's useles to continue arguing without resolving and answering the following questions:

1. Why George Dunsay in his interview said that Takara and Hasbro were not involved in the creative concept of the transforming planet?

2. Why Mr. Dery and Hiroyuki were given credits in the 1989 Japanese Transformers movie version?

3. Why Mr. Dery is given credit and Hiroyuki has no credit in the 1986 US Transformers movie version?

4. Why the Unicron design of Hiroyuki that is posted here is not dated?

5. Why the alleged claim that the posted cartoon designs here were done by Shohei when in fact the cartoons were designed by Mr. Dery in 1984 which were published by Marvel people recently in the book Transformers: Ark according to Joshua Chapman? Here's the Amazon website

http://www.amazon.com/review/product/1600100805?showViewpoints=1

6. Why the alleged Shohei's cartoon designs posted here is not dated?

7. Why the incredible misinformations in these website?

-Charlie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.213.244.5 (talk • contribs).

Dunsay doesn't say that. He says that Hasbro and Takara did not design the movie toys, which is true, becuase nearly all the new characters in the movie were created FOR THE MOVIE, and turned into toys BASED ON THOSE DESIGNS. Unicron, like the other new movie characters, was designed by the animation team, rather than by Hasbro or Takara. The point WHICH YOU ARE MISSING is that Dery has claimed that he came up with the IDEA of a transforming planet. He didn't HE DIDN'T HE DIDN'T. SOMEONE HAD ALREADY DONE IT YEARS BEFORE HIM, AS THE PICTURE POSTED HERE PROVES, BECAUSE IT COMES FROM A BOOK OF STUFF FROM BEFORE TRANSFORMERS. He DID design Unicron, but he didn't originate the idea of a planet that transforms.

As far as the Syouhei Kohara stuff goes, he's known only to have done the earliest designs. And you can see from Syouhei's page, those are NOT the same designs as Dery's. Dery's designs are further simplified versions of the designs shown there. END OF. - Chris McFeely 17:56, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, do we have clearer scans of Syouhei Kohara's early models so we can have one or two side-by-side comparisons for the wiki? --ItsWalky 18:04, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Nevermind. Found a better version on my hard drive. Go OCD! --ItsWalky 19:03, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Scan the DATED book where the design is taken. NO DATE, proves NOTHING! -Charlie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.213.244.5 (talk • contribs).

The book doesn't put a date next to the image, so that CAN'T be scanned, now can it? By it's VERY NATURE, the ENTIRE BOOK is about stuff that came before Transformers. THERE'S YOUR DATING. Chris McFeely 18:33, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Wrong argument, the book has a copyright date when it was published, scan it but don't tamper it because it can be verified easily.

-Charlie

And what on earth does the date the book was published have to do with when the pictures in it were drawn? It's a *recent book* of *old art*, you 'tard. - Chris McFeely 18:47, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Don't insult me, I am not insulting you! That is a sign that you lost the argument. But if it is a recent book, then it proves that the designs are based on Mr. Dery designs. The DATE is the litmus test!

Incredible, why my IP address is changing? I'm using the same address, telephone and computer. It's difficult for me to find in your website my IP.

A recent book OF OLD ART from STUFF BEFORE TRANSFORMERS. - Chris McFeely 19:43, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

- Charlie

Guys, nothing is going to satisfy this guy except ritual sacrifices to Dery. We're doing what we did with Assaulthead: egging him on and getting every one hot tempered. Walky, this guy is dodging a block, insulting people, and not contributing to this wiki in a meaningful way. You know what to do...-- SFH 19:27, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I designed the transforming planet.

Years before any of you clueless beings. It's toy, however, was 1:8 scale. We...kind of dropped the ball on that one. Anyway, we cast it into space, where most of you currently know it as the "Moon." TheMZone 01:44, 19 October 2010 (EDT)

We therefore have to use the numerical IP address to identify him/her. Such an IP address can be shared by several users. If you are an anonymous user and feel that irrelevant comments have been directed at you, please create an account or log in to avoid future confusion with other anonymous users.